Tuesday, December 16, 2003
EXACTLY THREE MONTHS AGO
I'm bored, the place I worked at last summer didn't take me back for temp work, so I'm left doing crazy, I-have-no-life things like this...transcribing radio segments that I recorded onto tape.
From September 16, 2003...on or around 7pm that day.
Game that day: Mariners at Rangers. Gil Meche against John Thomson.
Radio personalities involved: KJR's Dick Fain and David Locke, and a couple of callers.
Earlier call (will be referenced later in the post)...
Fain: ...let's go back to the phone lines. Dave, you're on 950 KJR, what's up, Dave?
Dave: you know, I don't even know where to begin with you, I mean, I just wanna turn the radio off when I hear your voice anymore...
Fain: why is that?
Dave: You've such a negative...I wanna say "jackass," I don't wanna be too harsh...
Fain: I've been positive all day, for the past hour and fifteen minutes!!
Dave: no, man, it's been the whole year, this thing you have for the Mariners is sickening. The fact is, the Seahawks have sucked forEVER, and...
Fain: Dave, lemme say...
Dave: hold on, lemme just get this off my chest...
Fain: Hang on, Dave, I'll let you finish, I've got one quick question for you -- Was I right?
Dave: NO!
Fain: Whaddaya...Whaddaya mean, no?!!
Dave: No! You know, you guys...guys like you are just pathetic, you know, the Mariners have done A TON over the last 10 years to try to turn this thing around, and it's STILL a crapshoot. It's not like the NBA or hockey where everybody gets into the playoffs. You have to be damn good and damn lucky in some ways to make the playoffs. The Mariners have tried EVERYTHING from trading prospects -- top-tiered prospects -- to not trading top-tiered prospects and either way as it works out
Fain: Dave, can you be more specific
(interruptions)
Fain: What have the Mariners done to make themselves better? What top-name prospects have the Mariners traded?
Dave: They have tried...they have tried and traded away Lowe and Varitek and some top-name prospects along the way...
Fain: THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO!!
Dave: ...and it did not work, so now they've tried it the other way where they do the offseason, pick up free agents, and DON'T TELL ME THEY HAVEN'T PICKED UP FREE AGENTS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE!
Fain: Who did they pick up? John Mabry and Greg Colbrunn. Are those difference-makers??
Dave: B.S.!! B.S.!!! You gotta look at ALL OF THEM!! You gotta look at Shigetoshi Hasegawa and Ichiro...and go down the list...
Fain: Dave, Dave, then, you're not listening to what I'm saying.
Dave: No, I am.
Fain: Wait a second. You're not, no, wait a second. All right, Dave, I'm gonna let you go unless you let me finish, okay.
Dave: Hold on, hold on.
Fain: I was not critical of the Seattle Mariners up until the middle of the 2002 season. Those players that you just named off are players that they've picked up two or three years ago. I'm talking about the trade deadline of 2002 is when I soured on the Seattle Mariners and since then, they have done nothing to -- it's not a real word, but -- UNSOUR me. They have done absolutely nothing since that time to make this team better, and you can't say that they have.
Dave: I CAN say that they have.
Fain: All right, who?!
Dave: you disagree with their strategy, but you're on them like it's nobody's business, and it's disgusting because
Fain: ...because no one else is!
Dave: ...the Seahawks have done NOTHING over the last 10, 20, whatever, 15 years...
Fain: and this, I think is a beginning of a new era, Dave
Dave: so what? you don't even know how it's gonna turn out yet. You don't. They're 2-0 and one year they go out and make some moves and they get in a guy like Ray Rhodes and all of a sudden, it's everything is great with the Seahawks, and that's B.S., man. Cut the Mariners some slack and say look, they tried this year to do it in the offseason, it didn't work out. Next year, let's see what they do. Maybe next year they bring in a couple free agents and then they DO make some trades. But year to year, it's a crapshoot, and all I know is that they tried. You cannot say that about the Seahawks.
Fain: Dave, I appreciate the call even though you called me a jackass and enjoy meaningless baseball in September. Now..if the Mariners go out and improve themselves going into the 2004 season, then I will give them a shot. I call it like I see it. I'm not gonna coddle to anybody. I'm not gonna coddle to the Seattle Mariners. I call it like I see it, and what I saw -- Dave never gave me a name that they have picked up in the last year and a half that has made a hill of beans difference on this team. You know why? Because he couldn't FIND one. If they go out and shore up this baseball team over the offseason, then I'm gonna come on the radio in March during spring training and say "you know what? I gotta hand it to Howard Lincoln. I gotta hand it to Pat Gillick. They did what they needed to do to make this team a championship-contending team for 2004," but you know what? They haven't DONE that yet, so I'm not gonna give 'em credit where credit is not due.
(next call)
Fain: Doug. What's up, man?
Doug: Hey, how's it going?
Fain: Good.
Doug: Sittin' through that last caller there...I gave up on the Mariners back after the 116-win season. You know, you can only go on for so long having your hopes up and pinning your heart every season on a baseball team that's actually gonna go somewhere in the playoffs only to get broken down, you know, and...just like you said, they haven't done anything since midway through last season. That's why Piniella's gone, and that's why they're going nowhere this year, and I think you're gonna see a firesale at the end of this year of the free agents that we're gonna lose, and we're gonna be back to the way we were back in the Kingdome.
Fain: Well, I certainly hope not, and I appreciate it, Doug. I think that in order for Howard Lincoln to keep up his 90-90-3 ratio, which I think he believes in to the Nth degree -- and when I say 90-90-3 I mean 90 wins, $90 million payroll, and three million fans -- that's the bottom line for Howard Lincoln. And so far this year, the business plan has worked like a charm. He got his $90M payroll...okay, it was 94 or 95, he got his 90 wins, or he will in the next week if the M's can pull their head out, and he already got his three million fans/ He's makin' money. He's makin' money. And if he wants to continue that business plan, he better not do what Doug just said, and that is the firesale, because if he gets rid of Cameron and Freddy and Edgar Martinez and Carlos Guillen and Shigetoshi Hasegawa, if he gets rid of all those guys and doesn't replace them...he won't have the $90M payroll, he won't have the 90 wins...and he sure as heck won't have the three million fans.
--end segment--
At this point, the Mariners are getting blanked 9-0 in Arlington...
KJR talent: Dick Fain and evening show host David Locke.
Locke: So, Dick, this will not be hard for you, but I need you to do something. Brian Lambert, I'm gonna need you to do something. This probably will not be hard for Brian Lambert. But really, we have a service to the community tonight on Locked on Sports and...everybody's gonna have to take part in it.
Fain: A burial?
Locke: No, no, no...a little bit like Alcoholics Anonymous. We're not quite "Hi, I'm David, I'm an alcoholic," but we're close -- I need you to repeat after me. And your case would be, "Hi, I'm Dick."
Fain: Hi, I'm Dick.
Locke: "...and I fully realize now that the Mariners have absolutely no chance to make the playoffs."
Fain: ...and I fully realize now that the Mariners have absolutely no chance to make...
Locke: You see, it's not that painful. And I gotta tell you something. If our good friends Dave Grosby and Mike Gastineau can paint a positive picture TOMORROW morning, THEY are miracle workers. They are HELEN KELLER, because they're deaf AND blind if they believe that. I'm tellin' you what...
Fain: I tell ya what, Groz is startin' to turn over, I mean he still says he has faith...
Locke: Dude, I listened to him today. I listened the whole time. He didn't turn over at all. He was talking about how because the middle of the lineup actually drove in the runs yesterday, that that's a positive sign. What the hell's he talking about?
Fain: Hey, who's got a better record since the All-Star break, the Mariners or the Texas Rangers?
Locke: Or the Tampa Bay Devil Rays?
Fain: [unintelligible]
Locke: You know what, I was actually working on this today, you just screwed me, because this was gonna be on tomorrow's show, but actually did not get enough time to finish it. But I actually am trying to go through EVERY TEAM in the game and find that answer.
Fain: Oh, well I'm sure the Mariners have gotta be -- well, they're under .500 so they've gotta be like 20th in the Majors.
Locke: I actually wasn't using the All-Star break, that's what was making this more difficult. The All-Star break's easy, you can just print out the All-Star break...
Fain: It's actually worse if you just use about the last six weeks.
Locke: I was actually gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and I was gonna back it up further, so when they came home from that road trip, and then they fall apart.
Fain: It'd be a little more unbiased if you used the All-Star break.
Locke: Yeah, I'll buy that. You know what? I listened to Groz today. Groz and Dave Andriesen were talking about how they're kinda snakebit--
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
(ORCAS ISLAND SIDETRACK)
Locke: I'm listening to Groz today, to get back to my interruption of myself, and they're talking about "well, on some days they're getting great pitching and other days they're getting hitting but they don't get any pitching" -- I'm thinking THAT'S A BAD BASEBALL TEAM.
Fain: Yeah. That's what bad baseball teams do, that's what below-average baseball teams do. One day they get good pitching and no hitting, the other day they get good hitting and no pitching.
Locke: Like what's so complicated about this? That is by definition what a bad baseball team is. That's what bad baseball teams do. Why is everybody having such a hard time...
Fain: Well, they're mediocre. They're not BAD.
Locke: Right now, they're a bad baseball team and they have been a bad baseball team for quite a while.
Fain: and they've been mediocre at best since the All-Star break.
Locke: Yeah, they're not a good baseball team right now. Great, they're gonna win 90 games...I'll burst your bubble for this one. I don't have it right in front of me, but basically the breakdown goes that from like '80-'85, '81 was the strike, for that 5-yr period, an average of five teams a year won 90 games. For the next five-year span of complete five seasons, five teams a year averaged 90 wins. Then the next span, which is about eight years, but it's five seasons because of all the strikes, six teams a year averaged...now because of all the financial discrepancies that exist in this game...
Fain: it's less, isn't it??
Locke: ...it's NINE teams a year average 90 wins, and [also because of expansion], so winning 90 games, which the Mariners rest their hat on all the time and everyone talks about how great it is to win 90 games is getting you in the TOP THIRD of baseball, and if you're the number two revenue team in baseball, you sure as hell should be in the top third unless you're incompetent, which a few teams are -- thank God the Mariners aren't incompetent, though they have reeked of it in recent times.
Fain: Absolutely...I got into a battle with a caller about an hour ago when he took exception to the fact that I said that the Mariners haven't done anything to improve themselves in a year and a half. And I don't think they have.
Locke: What did he claim they have?
Fain: He said "oh, they've traded players and they've done these things," you know how your irrational callers call you and they don't really have anything to back up what they're saying?
Locke: My callers are brilliant, I don't know what you're talking about.
Fain: Oh, I've heard you rip a few guys.
Locke: Never. I have only good, considerate, and calm callers.
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
Fain: All right, David, take it away, my man...
[...]
Locke: ...it's over, guys. It's all over. ... Anybody who believes anything else at this point is absolutely in their own world. There is no way that you can believe that the Mariners have any chance at all to be in the playoffs. The division is lost, the Wild Card race is lost, the season is lost. The Seattle Mariner swoon of 2003 is colossably complete and over. And tonight, as a service to Mariner fans, we need you to come on the show, talk about it, talk about your feelings -- but we need you to come to grips with it, finally tonight, that it's over. John? Could you please come on the program for a moment. Please? "Hi, my name is John, and I fully understand that the Seattle Mariners will not make the playoffs in 2003."
John (producer or something): My name is John, and instead of watching the Mariners game, I'm watching the WNBA finals.
Locke: Please, could you come to grips, please? Just a little admission?
John: Oh, I've come to grips.
Locke: This is amazing. If we really start to try to put this into perspective and understand this, this team went from 116 wins, the championship series, to being out of the playoffs two years in a row, and in both times with fairly colossal swoons.
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
Locke: glad to see all the triple-A guys getting Major League work for the Mariners tonight. 7:04, I came to grips, as much as we've been talking about this and kind of understanding it, it just became evidently clear to me when Boston dropped two in the bottom of the 8th to stretch their lead to 2.5 in the Wild Card, there isn't a prayer in hell the Mariners are catching them, and it's over. GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. HOW TERRIBLE!! JUST AN ABSOLUTE 2-YEAR FADE OF COLOSSAL PROPORTIONS. You know what? I don't care about 90 wins, all the other things...they should be so EMBARRASSED in that front office!
--end segment--
From September 16, 2003...on or around 7pm that day.
Game that day: Mariners at Rangers. Gil Meche against John Thomson.
Radio personalities involved: KJR's Dick Fain and David Locke, and a couple of callers.
Earlier call (will be referenced later in the post)...
Fain: ...let's go back to the phone lines. Dave, you're on 950 KJR, what's up, Dave?
Dave: you know, I don't even know where to begin with you, I mean, I just wanna turn the radio off when I hear your voice anymore...
Fain: why is that?
Dave: You've such a negative...I wanna say "jackass," I don't wanna be too harsh...
Fain: I've been positive all day, for the past hour and fifteen minutes!!
Dave: no, man, it's been the whole year, this thing you have for the Mariners is sickening. The fact is, the Seahawks have sucked forEVER, and...
Fain: Dave, lemme say...
Dave: hold on, lemme just get this off my chest...
Fain: Hang on, Dave, I'll let you finish, I've got one quick question for you -- Was I right?
Dave: NO!
Fain: Whaddaya...Whaddaya mean, no?!!
Dave: No! You know, you guys...guys like you are just pathetic, you know, the Mariners have done A TON over the last 10 years to try to turn this thing around, and it's STILL a crapshoot. It's not like the NBA or hockey where everybody gets into the playoffs. You have to be damn good and damn lucky in some ways to make the playoffs. The Mariners have tried EVERYTHING from trading prospects -- top-tiered prospects -- to not trading top-tiered prospects and either way as it works out
Fain: Dave, can you be more specific
(interruptions)
Fain: What have the Mariners done to make themselves better? What top-name prospects have the Mariners traded?
Dave: They have tried...they have tried and traded away Lowe and Varitek and some top-name prospects along the way...
Fain: THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO!!
Dave: ...and it did not work, so now they've tried it the other way where they do the offseason, pick up free agents, and DON'T TELL ME THEY HAVEN'T PICKED UP FREE AGENTS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE!
Fain: Who did they pick up? John Mabry and Greg Colbrunn. Are those difference-makers??
Dave: B.S.!! B.S.!!! You gotta look at ALL OF THEM!! You gotta look at Shigetoshi Hasegawa and Ichiro...and go down the list...
Fain: Dave, Dave, then, you're not listening to what I'm saying.
Dave: No, I am.
Fain: Wait a second. You're not, no, wait a second. All right, Dave, I'm gonna let you go unless you let me finish, okay.
Dave: Hold on, hold on.
Fain: I was not critical of the Seattle Mariners up until the middle of the 2002 season. Those players that you just named off are players that they've picked up two or three years ago. I'm talking about the trade deadline of 2002 is when I soured on the Seattle Mariners and since then, they have done nothing to -- it's not a real word, but -- UNSOUR me. They have done absolutely nothing since that time to make this team better, and you can't say that they have.
Dave: I CAN say that they have.
Fain: All right, who?!
Dave: you disagree with their strategy, but you're on them like it's nobody's business, and it's disgusting because
Fain: ...because no one else is!
Dave: ...the Seahawks have done NOTHING over the last 10, 20, whatever, 15 years...
Fain: and this, I think is a beginning of a new era, Dave
Dave: so what? you don't even know how it's gonna turn out yet. You don't. They're 2-0 and one year they go out and make some moves and they get in a guy like Ray Rhodes and all of a sudden, it's everything is great with the Seahawks, and that's B.S., man. Cut the Mariners some slack and say look, they tried this year to do it in the offseason, it didn't work out. Next year, let's see what they do. Maybe next year they bring in a couple free agents and then they DO make some trades. But year to year, it's a crapshoot, and all I know is that they tried. You cannot say that about the Seahawks.
Fain: Dave, I appreciate the call even though you called me a jackass and enjoy meaningless baseball in September. Now..if the Mariners go out and improve themselves going into the 2004 season, then I will give them a shot. I call it like I see it. I'm not gonna coddle to anybody. I'm not gonna coddle to the Seattle Mariners. I call it like I see it, and what I saw -- Dave never gave me a name that they have picked up in the last year and a half that has made a hill of beans difference on this team. You know why? Because he couldn't FIND one. If they go out and shore up this baseball team over the offseason, then I'm gonna come on the radio in March during spring training and say "you know what? I gotta hand it to Howard Lincoln. I gotta hand it to Pat Gillick. They did what they needed to do to make this team a championship-contending team for 2004," but you know what? They haven't DONE that yet, so I'm not gonna give 'em credit where credit is not due.
(next call)
Fain: Doug. What's up, man?
Doug: Hey, how's it going?
Fain: Good.
Doug: Sittin' through that last caller there...I gave up on the Mariners back after the 116-win season. You know, you can only go on for so long having your hopes up and pinning your heart every season on a baseball team that's actually gonna go somewhere in the playoffs only to get broken down, you know, and...just like you said, they haven't done anything since midway through last season. That's why Piniella's gone, and that's why they're going nowhere this year, and I think you're gonna see a firesale at the end of this year of the free agents that we're gonna lose, and we're gonna be back to the way we were back in the Kingdome.
Fain: Well, I certainly hope not, and I appreciate it, Doug. I think that in order for Howard Lincoln to keep up his 90-90-3 ratio, which I think he believes in to the Nth degree -- and when I say 90-90-3 I mean 90 wins, $90 million payroll, and three million fans -- that's the bottom line for Howard Lincoln. And so far this year, the business plan has worked like a charm. He got his $90M payroll...okay, it was 94 or 95, he got his 90 wins, or he will in the next week if the M's can pull their head out, and he already got his three million fans/ He's makin' money. He's makin' money. And if he wants to continue that business plan, he better not do what Doug just said, and that is the firesale, because if he gets rid of Cameron and Freddy and Edgar Martinez and Carlos Guillen and Shigetoshi Hasegawa, if he gets rid of all those guys and doesn't replace them...he won't have the $90M payroll, he won't have the 90 wins...and he sure as heck won't have the three million fans.
--end segment--
At this point, the Mariners are getting blanked 9-0 in Arlington...
KJR talent: Dick Fain and evening show host David Locke.
Locke: So, Dick, this will not be hard for you, but I need you to do something. Brian Lambert, I'm gonna need you to do something. This probably will not be hard for Brian Lambert. But really, we have a service to the community tonight on Locked on Sports and...everybody's gonna have to take part in it.
Fain: A burial?
Locke: No, no, no...a little bit like Alcoholics Anonymous. We're not quite "Hi, I'm David, I'm an alcoholic," but we're close -- I need you to repeat after me. And your case would be, "Hi, I'm Dick."
Fain: Hi, I'm Dick.
Locke: "...and I fully realize now that the Mariners have absolutely no chance to make the playoffs."
Fain: ...and I fully realize now that the Mariners have absolutely no chance to make...
Locke: You see, it's not that painful. And I gotta tell you something. If our good friends Dave Grosby and Mike Gastineau can paint a positive picture TOMORROW morning, THEY are miracle workers. They are HELEN KELLER, because they're deaf AND blind if they believe that. I'm tellin' you what...
Fain: I tell ya what, Groz is startin' to turn over, I mean he still says he has faith...
Locke: Dude, I listened to him today. I listened the whole time. He didn't turn over at all. He was talking about how because the middle of the lineup actually drove in the runs yesterday, that that's a positive sign. What the hell's he talking about?
Fain: Hey, who's got a better record since the All-Star break, the Mariners or the Texas Rangers?
Locke: Or the Tampa Bay Devil Rays?
Fain: [unintelligible]
Locke: You know what, I was actually working on this today, you just screwed me, because this was gonna be on tomorrow's show, but actually did not get enough time to finish it. But I actually am trying to go through EVERY TEAM in the game and find that answer.
Fain: Oh, well I'm sure the Mariners have gotta be -- well, they're under .500 so they've gotta be like 20th in the Majors.
Locke: I actually wasn't using the All-Star break, that's what was making this more difficult. The All-Star break's easy, you can just print out the All-Star break...
Fain: It's actually worse if you just use about the last six weeks.
Locke: I was actually gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and I was gonna back it up further, so when they came home from that road trip, and then they fall apart.
Fain: It'd be a little more unbiased if you used the All-Star break.
Locke: Yeah, I'll buy that. You know what? I listened to Groz today. Groz and Dave Andriesen were talking about how they're kinda snakebit--
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
(ORCAS ISLAND SIDETRACK)
Locke: I'm listening to Groz today, to get back to my interruption of myself, and they're talking about "well, on some days they're getting great pitching and other days they're getting hitting but they don't get any pitching" -- I'm thinking THAT'S A BAD BASEBALL TEAM.
Fain: Yeah. That's what bad baseball teams do, that's what below-average baseball teams do. One day they get good pitching and no hitting, the other day they get good hitting and no pitching.
Locke: Like what's so complicated about this? That is by definition what a bad baseball team is. That's what bad baseball teams do. Why is everybody having such a hard time...
Fain: Well, they're mediocre. They're not BAD.
Locke: Right now, they're a bad baseball team and they have been a bad baseball team for quite a while.
Fain: and they've been mediocre at best since the All-Star break.
Locke: Yeah, they're not a good baseball team right now. Great, they're gonna win 90 games...I'll burst your bubble for this one. I don't have it right in front of me, but basically the breakdown goes that from like '80-'85, '81 was the strike, for that 5-yr period, an average of five teams a year won 90 games. For the next five-year span of complete five seasons, five teams a year averaged 90 wins. Then the next span, which is about eight years, but it's five seasons because of all the strikes, six teams a year averaged...now because of all the financial discrepancies that exist in this game...
Fain: it's less, isn't it??
Locke: ...it's NINE teams a year average 90 wins, and [also because of expansion], so winning 90 games, which the Mariners rest their hat on all the time and everyone talks about how great it is to win 90 games is getting you in the TOP THIRD of baseball, and if you're the number two revenue team in baseball, you sure as hell should be in the top third unless you're incompetent, which a few teams are -- thank God the Mariners aren't incompetent, though they have reeked of it in recent times.
Fain: Absolutely...I got into a battle with a caller about an hour ago when he took exception to the fact that I said that the Mariners haven't done anything to improve themselves in a year and a half. And I don't think they have.
Locke: What did he claim they have?
Fain: He said "oh, they've traded players and they've done these things," you know how your irrational callers call you and they don't really have anything to back up what they're saying?
Locke: My callers are brilliant, I don't know what you're talking about.
Fain: Oh, I've heard you rip a few guys.
Locke: Never. I have only good, considerate, and calm callers.
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
Fain: All right, David, take it away, my man...
[...]
Locke: ...it's over, guys. It's all over. ... Anybody who believes anything else at this point is absolutely in their own world. There is no way that you can believe that the Mariners have any chance at all to be in the playoffs. The division is lost, the Wild Card race is lost, the season is lost. The Seattle Mariner swoon of 2003 is colossably complete and over. And tonight, as a service to Mariner fans, we need you to come on the show, talk about it, talk about your feelings -- but we need you to come to grips with it, finally tonight, that it's over. John? Could you please come on the program for a moment. Please? "Hi, my name is John, and I fully understand that the Seattle Mariners will not make the playoffs in 2003."
John (producer or something): My name is John, and instead of watching the Mariners game, I'm watching the WNBA finals.
Locke: Please, could you come to grips, please? Just a little admission?
John: Oh, I've come to grips.
Locke: This is amazing. If we really start to try to put this into perspective and understand this, this team went from 116 wins, the championship series, to being out of the playoffs two years in a row, and in both times with fairly colossal swoons.
(WNBA SIDETRACK)
Locke: glad to see all the triple-A guys getting Major League work for the Mariners tonight. 7:04, I came to grips, as much as we've been talking about this and kind of understanding it, it just became evidently clear to me when Boston dropped two in the bottom of the 8th to stretch their lead to 2.5 in the Wild Card, there isn't a prayer in hell the Mariners are catching them, and it's over. GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. HOW TERRIBLE!! JUST AN ABSOLUTE 2-YEAR FADE OF COLOSSAL PROPORTIONS. You know what? I don't care about 90 wins, all the other things...they should be so EMBARRASSED in that front office!
--end segment--
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